The Mindset Behind High-Performing Salespeople

Guest: Doctor Ali (Dr. Odie), best-selling author and founder of Inspired Results, a performance coaching and speaking business focused on overcoming fear, stress, public speaking, networking, and wellness.

00:00:09 – 00:00:58
It gives me great pleasure to welcome everyone here today to the Inspire One More podcast with the idea of helping professionals like you sell more, sell faster and profitably. Today I have with me Doctor Ali, who is a best-selling author and the founder of Inspired Results, a performance coaching and speaking business. He focuses on educating and entertaining audiences on topics such as overcoming fear, stress, public speaking, networking, wellness, and much more. His primary activities include speaking, coaching and writing. And I know you’ll be off to Bali in the next week or so to start filming your upcoming documentary film titled Inspired.

00:00:58 – 00:01:42
So it’s exciting to have you here with us today, doctor.
Yes. Thank you. I’m flying out on Saturday to start filming, and there’s so much going on and so many amazing things going on in your world too. But I’m so grateful to be here.
Likewise. I guess most of us are so great we started this podcast — some got, but I think our audience knows what’s coming is going to be great. So just a bit about your background — can you give us a bit of context into the “doctor” part?

00:01:42 – 00:02:41
Yeah, sure. So I’ve been a chiropractor for 25 years. That’s basically my core profession. And what I noticed in my first year practicing as a chiropractor, in Toronto, when I opened my clinic at age 27, was that most physical health problems actually came from lifestyle issues related to mostly emotions, but also breathing, posture, diet, exercise and sleep. Since then, I’ve gone from working with individuals one-to-one to working with organizations and helping the corporate body heal, if you will, as opposed to the individual body.

00:02:41 – 00:03:41
I think that’s a great segue into looking at the mindset of sales leaders, sales professionals — the mindset and energy of high-performing individuals. What role does physical energy and health play in a sales professional’s ability to close more deals?
I think even before closing more deals, it starts with the whole rapport-building side of things in terms of being able to connect with another human being. Just think about when you don’t have a great night’s sleep — it impacts how you show up. You show up with less energy, less vitality, you’re less inspired. You’re focused on just getting through the day instead of making this an incredible day and focusing on serving people. You may tend to lean on “let’s just get right to the point, sign here.”

00:03:41 – 00:04:15
Being rested allows you to better focus on the person in front of you — you are present, as opposed to absent. There’s a disease out there called “presentism” — there’s absenteeism, and there’s presentism, where people show up but they’re not really there. Knock, knock, nobody’s home.

00:04:15 – 00:05:09
What are some of the most common mental or physical habits that hold top salespeople back?
We start with the physical. Sleep is a huge one. At the end of a day, especially an uninspiring one, people come home tired and end up scrolling and doing mindless things instead of prioritizing what they’d love to do after work. They don’t get a good night’s sleep, don’t eat in the most ideal way, aren’t physically active. That impacts how they show up.

00:05:09 – 00:06:13
There are five physical things: breathing patterns, postural patterns, diet, exercise and sleep habits — they ultimately impact how people show up, whether in sales, marketing or any other profession. From a mental perspective, emotions can disrupt patterns and how you show up in massive ways. If I was to pick just one emotion, it would be fear — fear of not being able to close a deal, or fear of being perceived as a “salesperson” because of the stigma still attached to that word, even though we’ve moved toward calling it “business development.”

00:06:13 – 00:07:03
If you see selling as pushing something onto somebody who doesn’t really need it, there can be shame associated with that, and it impacts you — anxiety, fearing that label of “salesperson” hanging over your head, as opposed to someone who appreciates their product and the value they bring to others. Selling, if you want to use that word, really comes down to serving people. If you’re focused on service instead of self, you show up very differently — even beyond just having had a good night’s sleep.

00:07:03 – 00:07:55
I’m not particularly fond of the perception of selling when it’s actually a beautiful profession if you realize it’s serving. Every profession has a sales element — at home you’re selling ideas too. So those are probably the two biggest areas: your physical habits that impact how you show up energetically, and the emotions you carry with you when you sit across from somebody.

00:07:55 – 00:08:22
As a sales professional working for 30-plus years, I’ve always known that if I exercised, if I took care of myself, I was in a better position to serve another human being. There’s a concept: are you a taker or are you a giver? A taker is trying to get to a “yes” — a bit more of a pushy approach, which doesn’t sit well with people.

00:08:22 – 00:09:07
People are afraid, but deep down, if you find something you believe in and are passionate about, it’s a lot easier to go and serve — to help solve a problem, help someone be two steps ahead of their competition, help them avoid or fix a certain scenario. Going back to the five things — posture, breathing, diet, exercise, sleep — what stops people from doing that is today’s fast-moving economy. You have a phone, a million things going on, and we’re all addicted to the dopamine hit, thinking we’re being productive while we’re actually being zapped of our energy.

00:09:07 – 00:09:41
Being able to stop being a spectator watching other people’s lives and instead be in control of your own life, focusing on your cup being full — that’s when you can overflow and give value to other people, and that makes a huge impact.

00:09:41 – 00:10:24
The idea of “filling your cup” is underappreciated — how can you take care of other people if you don’t take care of yourself first? You just have more to give. Even something as simple as a good night’s sleep — when you feel better on the inside, you have more to offer on the outside. It starts with you.

00:10:24 – 00:10:40
You show up with more energy, more vitality, more engaged and interested in other people. You’re more patient in the conversation instead of rushing to close the deal, and you’re more likely to get a sustainable result — as opposed to just trying to take a big bite, which, if it even works, is probably the only bite you’ll ever get.

00:10:40 – 00:11:01
If you focus on serving other people, in fairness, it’s sustainable — you get a potential client for life. Let’s add a twist: what about a sales leader? A leader of sales, a sales director, VP Sales — a lot of the time the sales team is looking up to that leader.

00:11:01 – 00:11:32
I’ve been in situations where you see trophies and awards behind someone at the top, and the thing about that is people are watching the leader — if the leader is drowning, nobody wants to grow, nobody wants to be part of this business, because they don’t want to be as miserable as the person in front of them.

00:11:32 – 00:12:29
Leaders can drown while dealing with a cross-functional team — supply chain, marketing, finance, HR, operations. Sometimes sales leaders have a responsibility to take care of themselves so they can show up to serve their people. Any tips for sales leaders to avoid burnout and rise to the occasion of modeling the way for others?

00:12:29 – 00:13:00
The key thing is modeling and leading by example. If you’re a sales leader and you want your team to want to climb the corporate ladder to a similar position as you, you’ve got to lead by example — why would somebody want to end up drowning in the minutiae of bureaucracy and unnecessary meetings?

00:13:00 – 00:13:19
That’s not something people aspire to be like. To avoid burnout, it comes down to taking care of yourself and having a vision.

00:13:19 – 00:13:57
I think of it when I see people at the gym — I ask what keeps them going, and for many, it’s a vision they’re working towards. Imagine lifting a weight for absolutely no reason — you’d drop it. But when every interaction, every meeting is taking you one step closer to your vision, you’re less likely to be bored, less likely to jump ship, less likely to burn out, because there’s meaning to what you do.

00:13:57 – 00:14:20
People burn out because they don’t see the point of what they’re doing, they take on too much, and they don’t prioritize themselves along the way. It’s about serving your clients, your team — and also serving yourself and taking care of yourself along the way.

00:14:20 – 00:14:41
I love this concept of vision — one of the famous quotes says, “Where there is no vision, the people perish.”

00:14:41 – 00:15:06
The idea behind vision is figuring out the why. Having that vision helps overcome any obstacle — obstacles are going to be there. It’s about how much you really want what you’re going for.

00:15:06 – 00:15:40
Les Brown talks about it being “worth it” — is what you’re going for worth it? If it is, you do whatever it takes. For sales leaders, you might not know how much you impact your followers — if you’re leading and no one is following, you’re not leading.

00:15:40 – 00:16:06
When I started studying health, I added one more twist: wealth — what am I doing with my income? I started teaching that to others, modeling the way on health, wealth, relationships. The sales profession is actually very much similar to life, because it’s hard to be a good sales professional or sales leader without serving others, listening, communicating, being patient, having empathy and drive.

00:16:06 – 00:16:30
It’s hard to be successful in selling well and unsuccessful in your personal life — one is a reflection of the other. Being a student of the business is something I’ve always talked about.

00:16:30 – 00:16:53
You’ve written a book called The Four C’s. Let’s talk about selling through strategic networking — what mistakes do you see people make when growing their business through networking?

00:16:53 – 00:17:16
It starts with the paradigm they hold in their minds. A common one is “know, like and trust” — the idea that people only do business with you if they know you, like you, and trust you. It only gets you so far.

00:17:16 – 00:17:37
If you open a lemonade stand as a nine-year-old, the only people who’ll buy are the ones who know, like, and trust you most — your family, neighbors, friends and relatives.

00:17:37 – 00:18:07
But in the business world, especially entrepreneurial, most of your business does not come from that innermost circle. Even giving full credit to “know, like and trust” on a professional level — that you’re competent — it’s still incomplete.

00:18:07 – 00:18:28
You probably know someone highly competent — trusted professionally — that’s the first C in the Four C’s model: Credible. Highly believable, trusted on a personal level.

00:18:28 – 00:19:12
Even if you believe in the law of reciprocity and the “givers gain” concept, someone who sees you as competent and credible still won’t be able to pass business your way if they don’t perceive you to have the third key: Clarity of communication. That’s when the law of reciprocity breaks down — you’ve given and given, but you don’t receive, because that person doesn’t know how to help you. It’s not that they don’t want to — it’s that you make it difficult for them because you lack clarity.

00:19:37 – 00:20:29
If you’re not clear about what you do, who you are, why you do it, who you do it for — and not clear about what others need to say to open doors for you — they literally can’t help, despite wanting to.

00:20:29 – 00:20:58
Many people carrying the “know, like, trust” concept spend too much time on rapport and likability, instead of realizing that before people do business with you, they want to know you’re competent and credible.

00:20:58 – 00:21:30
The last C is Connectivity — the quality and quantity of your connections. It’s human nature: when someone perceives you as well connected, they naturally want to rub shoulders with you, do business with you, refer business to you.

00:21:30 – 00:21:53
When people perceive you as not well connected, there’s no ambition to associate with you — even if you’ve made it easy for them to know, like and trust you.

00:22:14 – 00:22:47
What are some mistakes sales professionals make with this Four C’s framework, and what advice can you give to hedge against them?

00:22:47 – 00:23:43
On connectivity: you can’t just show someone your thousands of contacts. You can display quantity of connections online — that’s what social media influencers are about, having a large following. Some people focus so much on the online world — a networking error — that the network they build isn’t actually strong, because those followers were sometimes paid for, and the number doesn’t grow organically.

00:23:43 – 00:24:34
People today focus on the online world more than offline — thinking a post could reach thousands, so why go to a networking function with only 25-30 people? That focuses on quantity. Of course you can build quality relationships online too, but typically it’s about volume rather than deepening existing relationships.

00:24:34 – 00:25:02
In sales, it’s easier to sell to an existing customer than a new one — five times less expensive — because they already know, like and trust you from a previous interaction.

00:25:02 – 00:25:31
The clear message here is quantity versus quality when it comes to connectivity. Quality happens in live, face-to-face interaction — you’re building a relationship, finding common ground: family, occupation, recreation, even goals.

00:25:31 – 00:26:13
I had lunch today with a wealth advisor named Johnny — into rugby, building communities. You can’t help but like the guy because you find so many things in common. That really does make a difference.

00:26:38 – 00:26:58
If somebody wants to get into a speaking business, how should they start working their network? What tips would you give someone entering the space of speaking, training, consulting?

00:26:58 – 00:27:25
First, you’ve got to really love it. If you’re doing it just because you’ve seen someone else do it, and it’s not coming from an authentic place, you’ll struggle. That’s what filters out those authentically chasing a dream versus those doing it inauthentically.

00:27:25 – 00:27:49
A lot of times speakers are pushing a message instead of being pulled by it. I remember delivering a talk to Toastmasters years ago and someone asked how I speak like that — with all that energy and animation.

00:27:49 – 00:28:22
I told him a lot of people have it backwards — they’re trying to push a message instead of aligning with it and being pulled by it. A vision pulls you or draws you toward it. The actions you take every day push you toward the vision. You want push and pull in place — be clear each morning about the most important thing you want to achieve that inches you closer to your vision.

00:28:22 – 00:28:45
Vision boards work for some people, but they didn’t work for me — not alive enough. So I created vision videos — a video I watch every morning and listen to every night, that I created myself.

00:28:45 – 00:29:14
It’s me sharing a spoken-word poem about legacy, with pictures and videos and music of everything I want to achieve in family, occupation, etc. — I can close my eyes and hear and see it.

00:29:14 – 00:29:42
That’s what creates the pull effect, drawing me toward the vision. Then I take the actions every day, prioritized, taking those footsteps closer to making the vision real.

00:29:42 – 00:30:05
“Where there is no vision, the people perish” — you’re utilizing the power of visualization. How do top athletes win championships? First in the mind, then in reality.

00:30:05 – 00:30:27
You close your eyes, go through the motion, seeing the future desired state of your health, wealth, relationships, and legacy. You bring this into the conscious mind, and the unconscious helps you take the actions to drive it.

00:30:27 – 00:30:50
This actually started after my first marathon, in Beirut. I finished in a very flashy way — I was carried to the finish line in an ambulance.

00:30:50 – 00:31:10
At kilometer 32 there was no more water station — from 32 to 37 there was no water. I got dizzy, couldn’t keep my head up, hunched forward walking, then collapsed from dehydration.

00:31:10 – 00:31:33
The ambulance offered me an aspirin instead of water. When they rehydrated me, I asked to be taken back to where they found me because I came to finish the marathon — but they wouldn’t let me, said I’d cross the finish in the ambulance instead.

00:31:33 – 00:31:49
So I came back to the UAE and decided this time I’d make sure I crossed the finish line myself. I drove to Dubai and recorded the marathon route on my phone from my car, quickly, with music, and watched that video over and over.

00:32:11 – 00:32:27
Even though I drove slowly to video it, I was going 40-50 km/h. I visualized it, and I also brought my fiancée’s cologne on a stick to smell during the run.

00:32:27 – 00:32:53
When running the marathon, I turned on the same music at kilometer 32 that I’d used when visualizing, and smelled the same perfume. I had the visual, the auditory, and the smell — now with my vision videos I have the vision, the auditory, and the feel.

00:32:53 – 00:33:14
I have flowers in the video to remind me to slow down and smell the flowers. That’s my approach to pushing and pulling — starting from a somewhat dark place.

00:33:14 – 00:33:41
I recently spoke at the NielsenIQ sales conference in Atlantis — 500 top sales professionals from around the world. My talk was about mindset mastery and partnering with clients, including an exercise on mental breakthroughs and visualization.

00:34:32 – 00:35:01
Selling is a mental sport — the sale happens first here, before it happens in reality. People believe first, and beliefs drive emotions, emotions drive action, action drives results. Sometimes all it takes is one success, and you focus on what you can do versus the missing tile of what you haven’t done. Focus on empowering yourself as a sales professional or leader to see your successes — it builds confidence.

00:35:01 – 00:35:54
Let’s talk about the concept from referrals to revenue. I sold knives door to door — a Cutco knife with a lifetime warranty. If you don’t get referrals after a sale, game over. I had a structured approach to asking for referrals, yet today people are hesitant to ask. What tips can you share for asking for a referral without sounding desperate?

00:35:54 – 00:36:30
Those not willing or able to ask for referrals are probably not doing so with clients they don’t feel they served well.

00:36:30 – 00:36:59
The first layer: if you’re not able to ask a client for a referral, maybe you didn’t serve them well. The second layer is fear — not wanting to impose, not wanting to get rejected.

00:36:59 – 00:38:04
What we’re taught about fear — the traditional model, possibly traced to Plato’s Allegory of the Cave — is that we fear the unknown, the “fear of uncertainty.” But the truth is you can’t actually experience an emotion without substance or information already in the mind.

00:38:04 – 00:38:55
If your child enters the room smiling because “mom said I can have ice cream at the mall,” that emotion is linked to something going on in the mind. If your daughter is upset because she can’t have ice cream since she didn’t finish her homework, same thing — the emotion is linked to something in the mind.

00:38:55 – 00:39:21
Fear is the same — you can’t fear the truly unknown, because there has to be something known in the mind. So what we’re actually fearing is the past — history repeating itself. We’re not afraid of the mystery of tomorrow; we’re afraid of the history of yesterday, of running yesterday into tomorrow.

00:39:48 – 00:40:23
A salesperson afraid to ask for a referral, even after delivering high-quality service, is afraid of re-experiencing rejection — something they’ve labeled a negative experience. We don’t want to re-experience things we’ve labeled as negative.

00:40:45 – 00:41:07
The three main traits that drive sales success: courage — to go out of your comfort zone (courage is not the absence of fear, it’s acting in spite of it); humility — being open for input.

00:41:07 – 00:41:24
Every time you say “I know,” you’re building a wall between you and the person giving feedback. Try replacing it with “That’s a great idea, let me give it a shot.”

00:41:24 – 00:42:30
And the last: discipline — disciplining yourself to read even 15 minutes a day, and the law of accumulation/compounding kicks in. Over 365 days, 15 minutes a day adds up to over 100 hours — equivalent to two credit courses at MBA level. Someone doing this over three or four years could effectively earn an MBA’s worth of knowledge in 15 minutes a day.

00:42:59 – 00:43:23
A lot of people struggle with discipline because emotions carried through the day, once home from work, pull them away from their vision, so they do mindless things that distract them instead.

00:43:23 – 00:43:44
How do we help someone keep their vision alive? It starts with uncovering a vision. Team building is about aligning visions — not bowling or breaking bread together or solving riddles.

00:43:44 – 00:44:31
How can you align with your company’s vision if you don’t have your own, or if the company’s vision isn’t articulated with clarity? When I coached people full-time, uncovering the vision was my number one requested program, with CEOs and high performers alike. Once you uncover the vision, you need to keep it top of mind.

00:44:31 – 00:45:03
Vision boards didn’t work for me — no audio, and the images aren’t alive. I want to see myself and key people in my life moving and acting. Keeping the vision alive is about repetition — how you keep a muscle alive. You repeat it, or you get sarcopenia (loss of muscle mass over time).

00:45:03 – 00:45:27
You keep a vision alive through repetition, volume, and making it meaningful — a random vision of materialistic things won’t sustain you.

00:45:27 – 00:45:47
Start with uncovering your deepest vision and the legacy you want to leave. You might not have the complete picture, but get what’s clear into the video, and edit it as things change.

00:45:47 – 00:46:10
When I coach people on this, they get crystal clear about their future. Initially they say “not clear at all” — by the end, “I’m pretty clear, this is the clearest I’ve ever been.”

00:46:21 – 00:46:41
People are like water — they take the shape of whatever container you put them in. When I was a brand new sales manager selling knives, 100% commission, my success depended on training, recruiting, and transmitting a vision.

00:47:10 – 00:47:34
That’s something I find lacking in many organizations. The biggest difference between an average performer and a top performer was my ability to communicate that vision with others — through repetition.

00:47:34 – 00:48:20
I moved to Puerto Rico as a district manager, not knowing anyone, after my girlfriend at the time left me. I put up a sign: “Welcome to the future number one team of Vector.”

00:49:27 – 00:50:08
When I brought in my first 12 recruits, they asked “where’s the team?” I said, “You are the team.” We kept promoting the vision even while ranked far below other offices.

00:50:38 – 00:51:06
Out of nowhere, the San Juan team started showing up on the top-20 newsletter, and we never stopped — seven of ten years, the San Juan office was in the top ten offices worldwide, out of more than 500.

00:51:33 – 00:52:09
I don’t even speak Spanish — it was vision. My team helped write the story. Many people at that first training room became the leaders who grew the business, expanding into Costa Rica and Latin America.

00:52:30 – 00:52:46
Steve Jobs has a video I share in workshops: leaders need to reiterate the vision constantly, because people forget — you have to remind them why, especially those who don’t see meaning in certain things.

00:53:09 – 00:53:29
At Unilever, I took over a losing business. I sat with my team, did a values exercise, created our mission and vision statement, printed on everyone’s desk.

00:53:52 – 00:54:20
The target was to lose less money — instead of losing €1 million, lose 300,000. With the same team (minus one person), we turned that business around within one year.

00:54:40 – 00:55:09
Combine leading by vision and leading by example — you need your own vision in place, and bring energy and vitality to inspire people to want to live at the same level you are.

00:55:09 – 00:55:38
Coaches in sports aren’t players, aren’t as fit as players, but they reiterate the vision and show up emotionally stable. The Toronto Maple Leafs’ coach is incredible — he cares about every single player.

00:56:01 – 00:56:24
How do sales professionals go from being emotional to being stable, following through on what needs to happen? The average sale happens after 5 to 12 follow-ups, but most people give up after the first attempt — 44% just give up.

00:56:24 – 00:56:45
Emotional stability is actually an oxymoron — emotions aren’t designed to be stable. What can be stable is the vision.

00:56:45 – 00:57:05
Stability comes from being able to push through difficult days because you understand why you’re doing it. Every time you contact a prospect, if you’re adding value, that’s a meaningful connection, not a random one.

00:57:30 – 00:57:50
The reason it takes 5 to 12 touch points is because you haven’t yet ticked the four boxes in their mind — competent, credible, clear, and connected.

00:58:19 – 00:58:49
The Four C’s framework applies not just to networking or entrepreneurship, but to executives, corporate and government roles too.

00:58:49 – 00:59:09
Consistency, being enthusiastic and knowing how to return to your centered state when emotional, matters. The way is the shortest distance between two points — a straight line — but emotions zig-zag you left and right.

00:59:28 – 00:59:49
The secret is knowing how to come back — the vision is subject to change, so you define, then refine it over time. Same with emotions: how do I come back?

00:59:49 – 01:00:11
It’s not about not getting emotional — sports teams get emotional when they lose. It’s about how they come back and show up ready to serve the next client without carrying the previous deal forward.

01:00:56 – 01:01:31
Most people don’t focus on the pull — they focus on the push (knocking on doors, taking daily steps). That’s vital, but it’s like pedaling only one way on a bike. You need both the push (inspired daily action) and the pull (from the vision) to build full momentum.

01:01:56 – 01:02:28
A story from around age 27: my father visited my chiropractic center and said, “It’s missing one thing — patients. This place is empty.” I said I was new, people needed time to find out about me. He said, “No, that’s your first mistake. You don’t wait for people to find out about you — you go out there and network.”

00:02:28 – 00:03:11
I didn’t know what networking meant — for me, networking and speaking were synonymous, since most networking requires speaking. I wasn’t interested. My dad pointed out the window and said, “Go speak there.” I booked the talk, but a few nights before I was terrified — my knees were like boiled spaghetti.

01:03:36 – 01:04:24
The night before, exhausted and worn out, I was watching TV and heard a story about a man who left his children in South Africa to hitchhike across the Sahara desert and swim the Mediterranean Sea to reach Europe, just to work as a janitor and clean floors to provide for his family.

01:04:47 – 01:05:15
I called him “Line” because he was a courageous son of a gun, and here I was scared of speaking to a welcoming audience.

01:05:15 – 01:05:41
I got lucky — it was a dream audience for a terrified speaker. A third of the audience was deaf, a third was blind, and the rest were so heavily medicated they didn’t understand a word. I was speaking at an old age home.

01:05:41 – 01:06:08
An old lady asked to give me feedback afterward. I thought, “I’m never speaking again.” She said, “You speak way too fast. You need to slow down.” I was still thinking I’d never speak again — and then she said, “But never stop talking.”

01:06:08 – 01:06:29
She inspired me so much, and I’ve never looked back — I’ve been speaking ever since. If you really love speaking, and love being moved by the message you’re aligned with, you’ll do whatever it takes.

01:07:23 – 01:07:49
Key principles: your competence, credibility, clarity and connectivity — and the fact that people need to be reminded, or interacted with, 5 to 12 times.

01:07:49 – 01:08:08
If those elements are missing, it takes much longer, or people won’t want to interact with you at all. It’s your job to make it easier for people to see that you’re competent, credible, clear and connected — you have to learn to signal and showcase it.

01:08:08 – 01:08:28
Gone are the days when there’s more demand than supply. The message to sales professionals: don’t wish the market gets easier, wish you get better.

01:08:28 – 01:09:22
For those who want to reach out to Doctor Ali: his website is DrOdie.com, and his handles across most platforms are @InspiredDoctorOdie.

01:09:22 – 01:09:50
For our listeners, the first two people to reach out to info@drodie.com will get a complimentary discovery call with Doctor Ali.

01:09:50 – 01:10:20
Thank you — it’s been a pleasure. Here’s to everyone out there: simply inspiring you, to help you sell more, sell faster and profitably. Until next time.

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